Thursday, December 3, 2009

TIS may play in Premier League Reserves


The FFT Board will meet on 15 December to make a decision on where the Tasmanian Institute of Sport team, the State under-15s and the State-under-14s will play next season.


At a meeting of club presidents on Tuesday evening, a proposal was put to the FFT Board that the TIS should play on Wednesday nights against Premier League Reserve teams in a stand-alone competition.


The proposal that the TIS play in the senior Premier League competition on weekends was not supported.


FFT will absorb the TIS team fees, but TIS must pay referees’ fees.


It was also proposed that the State under-15s play in Division One on weekends, which means there may be no bye in that league next year.


If the under-15s were to win the Division One title, they would not be eligible for promotion to the Premier League. The second-placed team would be promoted.


The State under-14s and under-13s may be asked to play on weekends in ‘higher youth competitions to be determined early in 2010’.


The under-13s, under-14s and under-15s are all full-time FFT squads and all costs will, apparently, be levied against squad players, which means parents will be footing the bill.


* * * * *


The Tasmanian Football Show on Aurora TV will not resume next season as some people had hoped.


Club presidents voted against the idea after FFT decided clubs would have to contribute a significant amount of money for the program to be revived.


The FFT Board had committed to a $25,000 budget for the show, to be funded 50 per cent by the southern Premier League clubs and 50 per cent from FFT’s general revenue. This general revenue would involve increasing player registrations by $1.


After a majority of clubs voted against re-activating the program, the presidents requested the FFT Board to consider applying any subsequent uncommitted funds towards ‘local promotion of the game’.


* * * * *


Hobart United goalkeeper Nathan Grandin has transferred to Metro for the coming season.


Scottish import Grant Malcolm is also back in Tasmania and may well resume his career with Metro.


Metro’s other two Scottish imports from last season, Ricky Orr and Colin Sweeney, who are in Victoria, hope to play somewhere interstate next season.

87 comments:

the sheppard said...

thats it- let 14 15 year old kids play against old slow over the hill bums where the only chance to catch the kids is to snap them. watch the careers go by the wayside for these young kids. putting them in danger is not the way to progress through their early years of development

the sheppard said...

and sorry walter, but trying to get more cash from premier league clubs is like blood from a stone.

jerrie kruijver said...

div one games will be action packed.the spectacle of a little 14 yearold bouncing off rodney bones and landing in the toprow of the groverd stand after a perfectly legal shoulder to shoulder should be great.these guys are playing for promotion they will not hold back.sorry rodney for taking you as an example.

JD said...

While I don't personally support a TIS team (individual scholarships would be better), putting them in Sth Premier League is probably a good compromise, although I assume this will necessitate a bye in Premier League and U19 comps?? I probably would let the U15 State boys into the U19's rather than Div 1 although unlike many others, I think most U15 State boys would stand up just fine to Div 1 football.

Anonymous said...

U 15 in Div 1 ?
Whoever suggested this has rocks in their head or heads. Have they ever seen a Div 1 game ? Take out Taroona and Metro and unfortunately the rest are full of never will be's or has beens. This is not a criticism of these players in any way at all,as they have every right to play in a league they are comfortable in.
Unfortunately this should not be the league that the U15 should play in.U 19 league would be more appropriate I would think.They would be better playing Premier League reserves which consists mainly of good young players with a splattering of good older players, where they could learn something.

Chalky23 said...

I hope that everyone involved with the FFT/TIS realises that these kids are going to get hurt. I for one will not pull out of a tackle just because they my opponent is young. I feel that if this goes ahead FFT are putting these kids in danger. Whoever is throwing these ideas around is on crack, seriously. As other people have said, if they are good enough they should be playing Senior football for their club, whilst using the scholarship/extra training etc to develop their game outside of their club. I think this entire notion is a bloody joke. Sort it out.

Amazed said...

Whilst it would seem that other states sre able to accommodate their Institute sides in senior leagues (QAS for example play in the senior premier competition in that state - the Queensland State League - and they do very well indeed) Tasmanian clubs are not able to bring themselves to do so - as it is considered too disruptive to the promotion/relegation side of things. BUT it seems that Div One clubs are able to accommodate the StateU15 side despite the impact they may have on the promotion race in that league.

Premier League would be much better for the TIS side than Premier Reserves. Even though they may take half a season to adjust they would improve dramatically - and isnt that what it is supposed to be about?

Anonymous said...

I think the BIG difference of us having TIS playing our Premier League or even Div 1, is we don't have the Quality of 14/15 yo's that other states have per Capita. If you see any of these other teams in other states I guarantee all those kids will be 6 foot tall and built well enough to handle themselves.

Let's face it, we don't have the numbers to choose from. Therefore I too believe we are putting these kids in danger. Up until now 15 y/o's need permission to play up with the senior side at their clubs even if they're good enough. But now it's ok just to throw a COMPLETE side in What a joke!

captain said...

JD did you mean SPL Reserves?

It would be nice to know what the format is. I assume the U19, Ressies and Seniors playing in succession on a Sat afternoon is now no longer possible, which is a pity.

Walter said...

the sheppard, I don't know why you're apologizing to me.

I'll outline my involvement in the Football Show. I suggested to the former administration three years ago that Tasmania should be involved in the Aurora Football Show. They agreed and arranged for Mr Video to film games. I was involved as a commentator and host for two seasons until the show was discontinued this past season. I was disappointed for the clubs and players and for Tasmanian football, but it was no skin off my nose. I never ever received anything for my involvement and made it quite clear that I did not want anything, despite the travel and time aspects. The guests, co-hosts and other personnel who appeared did likewise. Nobody, except Mr Video, who is a professional and was filming the games as part of his business, received anything.

I would adopt the same stance now if the show were to resume. The fact that it is now dead gives me more time to do other things.

Besides, I disagree strongly with FFT's approach to this issue. The clubs should not be asked to contribute money, let alone the players. To ask the clubs to contribute to the financing of the show was an insult to the clubs and players as they are the ones who provide the entertainment and material for the show. FFT should be responsible for promoting the game and the money should come from their coffers entirely.

No advertising was ever obtained for the show and we sat in front of a blank black backdrop. Surely advertising to cover costs could have been sought as the show was broadcast nationally. I know some FFT Board members were in favour of the show, but it's interesting that the current CEO has not seen a single episode. I find that disappointing as he cannot possibly form an opinion on the matter or offer guidance to the Board about the issues.

#8 said...

State U15 (almost 2nd string with boys in TIS and also some of Kenny's boys not in side) would struggle in U19s.

State U14s would be Ok in U17s as per 2007 side that went thru that comp undefeated.

the sheppard said...

cheers walter, ican say from my mates point of view, it was a feeling we might not get for a while to show our skills to a national audience. thanks for clearing that up for us


and chalky my man...
you are built like a juggernaut, watching you go about your business each week, constantly getting yourself to every challenge possible is a rare treat for all of us.. watching you beat up on a younger and (smaller) kid is going to be brutish at best. what rogue your a horror to every opponent willing to get down the right hand side. my man

Prophet said...

2010 under 15 team will battle northern territory for 11th spot - and probably lose.

Chalky23 said...

Haha, you make me tingle in the pants sheppard. Got to love the blog for a bit of banter. Thankyou for the text message and award by the way, me love you long time.

On a serious note though, it is disappointing that the Aurora Football Show isn't on anymore. I think we all enjoyed it and the exposure it gave was second to none for a long time.

Also in response to Amazed - I agree in regards to what you said about playing them in Premier League over reserves. May as well, the reserve league has gotten better in the last 2 years but will they get much out of it? Not really, seems a bit pointless to me.

Anonymous said...

Previous anonymous,

your reasoning regarding the QAS players being good enough and big enough to compete in their STATE league, and the TIS boys not being able to is wrong.

For one, you have obviously never seen any of the other states play, as they are not the giants you make them out to be.
Secondly, you say that as they have a higher population, the quality of the QAS players is better than the TIS(which may well be true), which is the reason they are able to compete well in their league and the TIS could not. What you have not taken into account is the fact that the quality of the Queensland STATE league is far better than the SOUTHERN Tas premier league, for the same reason as the QAS would be better than the TIS, the population factor.

Adrian said...

FFT cannot budget to promote the game on the aurora channel!!!!!

Shame, shame, shame. Given players pay approx $300 to play football each season - with the vast majority finding its way to FFT through rego, team noms, referee fees etc... just what do we get for our buck.

So much for strategic planning. and interesting to note that FFT is and has been willing to fund TIS entry into the league.

Maybe time for an alternative association, well at least we can dream!!!!

nugget said...

to the sheppard and chalky are you having a relationship, im particularly worried about you chalky as you said you loved me the other day and i got a bit scared and i dont know how to take you, its ok if you want to come out of the closet chalky we wont judge you, as for the tis they shouldnt be in any leauge, they should play a mid week game against a team from every premier leauge club through out the season and on weekends there players free to play premier leauge level IF THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH

Anonymous said...

"Besides, I disagree strongly with FFT's approach to this issue. The clubs should not be asked to contribute money, let alone the players. To ask the clubs to contribute to the financing of the show was an insult to the clubs and players as they are the ones who provide the entertainment and material for the show. FFT should be responsible for promoting the game and the money should come from their coffers entirely."

Well said Walter.
And Adrian.

I don't understand who The Sheppard is trying to kid!

Why should clubs pay extra for the Aurora channel when the prize money for winning a cup or title in Tasmania, FFT doesn't even add up to $1,000 in prizemoney.

Add another $89,000 and you have what it costs to put teams from juniors all the way through the seniors for a season.

Now that stone from clubs seems to be bleeding a lot more than FFT's stone!!

And with your comment about the reserve league, you have obviously played in the same league and found it tough or are you one of the "old slow over the hill bums" that is feeling resentful.

Just my thought.

Adrian said...

any good administrator would be relishing the opportunity to engage potential sponsors with Aurora channel giving exposure far greater than normal advertising mediums.

Sadly over the years I am yet to see FFT promote any sponsor in the manner it should expect. Go finger, even match balls last season promoted queensland, which had nothing to do with Tasmania football

Well thank goodness that their are at least still a few good people around who volunteer their time to actively promote the game, something that paid FFT does not.

Traditionally football is a winter sport, however with warm and long day light hrs, why would we not have an FA cup style comp played in twilight at KGV on a Friday, sat night, giving school kids free entry, putting on half time entertainment, music over the PA system, improving comfort of seating, providing better refreshments, the list goes on.

Start and remember the little things and do them well and build from there. It is pathetic that even FFT fees are not set and in place before the end of each season, which would allow clubs to plan early.

What has happened to coaching courses. I am sorry for the complaining but when is enough is enough.
Todate I have not seen a plan on how FFT will actively promote the game to increase spectators. They seem to leave it the clubs, but come on, be serious who is supposed to be running the show. The clubs or FFT!!!

jerrie kruijver said...

is anonymus doing a bit of creative accounting here?????????...does anyone know the exact cost to the club in regards to fielding a side?is there a clubtreasurer on the blog?

Adrian said...

In season 2009
TEAM NOMINATION FEES
Premier League $ 2150
Premier League Reserves $ 1650
Under 19 $ 775
Division 1 (South) $ 1450
Division 1 Reserves $ 1135
Division 2 $ 970
Division 3 $ 930
Division 4/Northern Division 1/Over 35’s* $ 425
Under 17/Under 18 $ 475
Women’s Premier League $ 940
Women’s Division 1 $ 630
Women’s Division 2/Over 30’s* $ 425
Southern Youth Leagues $ 425 + $110 if no home ground
REGISTRATION FEES
Senior Players $ 110
Under 17 & Under 18 $ 90
Under 13 to Under 16 $ 35
Officials $ 25
Junior Association Players $ 25

On top of this would be referee fees, not sure portion the ref gets. Personally think they should be paid for :)

Anonymous said...

Jerrie,
from what I understand the basic Costs for
1xSenior Premier League team
Nomination: $2300
FFA/FFT rego: ~$1400 (15 players)
Ref's fees: ~$2000/yr (10 home games)

Estimate: $5700

So roughly $380 per player/year

Not counting ground hire, strips, match balls etc etc

I'm not sure how many players pay that much for rego. The clubs tend to make up the difference.

JD said...

Ahoy Captain, you old pirate - I did indeed mean that the SPL Reserves is a reasonable compromise for TIS but I'd still like to know if that means a bye in Premier League and U19's or will the SPL Ressies have to play 2games a week when rostered to play the TIS?

Anonymous said...

JD
yes. Reserves will play an extra midweek game against TIS 3 times a year. A 9 team 24 game roster being fit in somehow.

JD said...

Oh yes, I assume that Mr May will be on the sidelines coaching the TIS lads rather than playing enforcer for them if the SPL Reserves deal is done as anticipated?

observer said...

Nothing has changed as far as FFT are concerned. What a pathetic organisation we have running the world game in our state .They are an absolute disgrace.Get off you fat behinds and go looking for sponsorship/money /deals to promote the sport. When the governments' grant runs out , what then ? If it hasnt run out already.If there is no-one suitable on the FFT board/staff whose business it is to seek sponsorship, then pay someone who can. You have to spend money to make money . Organisations are not going to come knocking on your door to offer money ,whilst you sit on your hands and do nothing. The cost of all junior full time squads should be subsidised .The parents are told that they shouldnt worry about the cost of the boys' trips at this stage . That should not be a consideration at this time.When should it be a consideration ? When the child has made the team and then FFT find out that the parents cannot afford to send the child ? When does it become a consideration ?
The running of FFT is not just about ensuring that it just finishes in the black at the end of the year. They are the body that should be promoting the sport and seeking sponsorship every year.In business , most people who work in a sales/development field ,are measured on their increase in fees,goods sold,new clients or whatever.How are FFT measured ?
One of FFT's KPIs should be how many businesses , organisations , corporations have been contacted each year seeking sponsorship/support for the sport.
I bet there are not many. So what if the full time state sides are sponsored ,and the sponsors name appears on the bags or tops ! I am talking about a serious sponsor ,not just someone who wishes to buy the tops. Come on FFT do what you are paid to do and stop expecting the clubs/parents to pay for things that you should be financing via sponsorships.

jerrie kruijver said...

thanks adrian and anonymus.

RANGERS PRESIDENT said...

Hot off the press lads 2010 fees:

Team Nomination and Player Registration Fees for 2010 are listed below. They include GST.
TEAM NOMINATION FEES
Premier League $ 2,235
Premier League Reserves $ 1,720
Under 19 $ 810
Division 1 (South) $ 1,510
Division 1 Reserves $ 1,180
Division 2 $ 1,010
Division 3 $ 980
Division 4/Northern Division 1/Over 35’s* $ 500
Under 17/Under 18 $ 550
Women’s Premier League $ 980
WPL Res / Women’s Division 1 $ 660
Women’s Division 2 $ 460
Southern Youth Leagues $ 460 + $130 if no home ground
REGISTRATION FEES (+) (FFA Component)
Senior Players $ 117 ($22 included)
Under 17 & Under 18 $ 96 ($11 included)
Under 13 to Under 16 $ 37 ($11 included)
Officials $ 27 ($11 included)
Junior Association Players $ 27 ($11 included)
(*) If M O35 league proceeds in 2010.
(+) Includes FFA National Registration Fee of $22 for senior players and $11 for all others. Also includes participant insurance of approximately $6.50 per participant.

the sheppard said...

maybe the fft should look to the expertise of some of the bloggers on here for their indepth knowledge and information on these underwhelming statistics.

JD said...

Thanks Anon for clarifying the format for the proposed 'stand alone' comp for TIS/SPL Reserves - presumably it will be called the TIS Challenge! As previously posted, I think this is an ok compromise but I'm not sure the TIS should get a free ride from FFT on the team fees. After all, the Tas govt is handing over a fair chunk of coin to fund the TIS program - enough coin to find $1720 for team fees, I would have thought.

JD said...

BTW #8 thanks for reminding me about the 2007 U14 State team who in the following year formed the core of the unheralded 2008 U15's finishing 5th at the National Champs by deservedly beating Vic Metro in the playoff final - those lads and coach Previdi never got anywhere enough kudos for that effort. That team could have played SPL Reserves, let alone Div 1, without any problems.

the sheppard said...

walter-
seeing 2010 is upon us, maybe it would be good for you to show us all who you think would be in your team of the decade. i made 2 teams i found it difficult to name one team so here we go. yes debate is healthy:

GK MAINELLA
RB WASS
CB PITT GRUNDY
LB A JONES

RM RAPLEY
CM SHEPPARD(C) PULLEN
LM CROSSWELL

CF LAKOSLJAK HARBINSON

COACH EAMONN KELLY

TEAM 2

GK MONCUR
RB BEGOVIC
CB ROBINSON
LB PROUD

RM FIELDING
DCM STODDART(C)
CM HADLEE ROACH
LM SANDERS

CF HUIGSLOOT FALZON

COACH KEN MORTON

hit me up with your ommissions. especially you walter

Amazed said...

In FFT's ranking of Leagues Division One is ABOVE Premier Reserves.

So Shouldnt TIS be in Division One and U15 in Reserves??

Brian Roberts said...

Interesting to note the junior fees .

what are the costs in the North and North West equivalent leagues .

As a matter of interest prior to the levy Smithy and I used to charge a flat fee ( about 400 not sure based on an average squad of 16 ) per team with free ground rent and nil referees fees.

Subsidised by adult fees .

It would appear now no subsidy and the adult fees have continued to rise .

jerrie kruijver said...

if it is decided to make tis teams compete in the seniors comp.then put them in the premier league and have uni and metro play of for a spot in the premierleague,making it a 10 team league.should they win the premiership then they are the champs after all it is ludicrous to recognise a team that comes second as premiers.if the other tis team plays in div 1 and wins it they should get promoted for the simple reason it would be ludicrous to promote the second best team to a league that only should contain the best teams.should the tis teams become the whipping boys in both comps and they finish last they should get relegated just like any other side.

whippet said...

there is no way that division one is better than premier reserves. only two teams from division one would stand a chance against any of the top 5 or 6 reserves teams. fact

jerrie kruijver said...

since every premierleague club has a reserve team playing in their own league maybe the second tis team should be playing as the reserve side in the premierleague reserves

the sheppard said...

fair comment JK, what the league tried to do since the days of DOSA then hobart united and metro, is get rid of the clubs that didn't deserve the right to be there in the first place. to have another team come, regardless if its the TIS or not, to succumb to the mercy of some of the higher profile teams the young guys aren't going to gain anything from it. just bruised ego's back at school when they say that the pride they get for representing their state is to get pumped on the field each week.

Anonymous said...

what most of you would find is that the TIS would be disciplined enough and technically gifted enough to hold a decent shape, keep the ball and avoid getting the lumps kicked out of them.

I think most of you would actually be surprised at what they could do against premier league opposition.

As far as the QAS is concerned, well they have an institute program that at present rivals the AIS, with some outstanding coaches. Many of their recent players are curently yth players at Bris Roar and GCU

jerrie kruijver said...

anonymus nobody is denying that these kids can play,they played well in the hudson cup.however to play against stronger men for a whole season is a bit different.if they play with their own club their coach will put his talented youngsters in the squad and nurse them along by using them as subs and leave them on if they play well but if they get hammered he can take them off.that is how youlook after emerging talent.by all means let tis play in cups etc against the big boys..but nurse them along so you can take them out of harms way if it is needed

Anonymous said...

Jerry, I think you're missing the point. At 15-16 years of age, an elite squad of players will be able to cope together as a unit. I doubt they would lose too many games at all across an entire season.

Your smaller players tend to be more technical and space savvy, thus they generally avoid/minimalise the contact, and where they do cop it, they learn from it.

These aren't children, they're adolescent males who are more than capable of matchign it with the premier league teams.

as far as premier league coaches go, well they're actually more prone to make a decision on a youngster based on the result they could produce for them, hence McIntyre playing all of last season...

jerrie kruijver said...

anonymus i thought we were talking about under 16 kids,that means kids of 14 and 15.but ok if everyone agrees they can cope so be it.as far as your point about premierleague coaches goes you must remember this,all coaches of either professional or amateurclubs have the same mission.they must obtain the best possible result for their employer,to archieve that he will only pick those players who can archieve the result he wants.if he thinks a player does not measure up that player gets dumped.i am sure tis has rejected kids that dont measure up.any way i hope they succeed as long as they do so without getting any special favors, it must be remembered that the premierleague is not there to serve tis but tis is there to serve the league to provide the next generation of players and hopefully see a few of these kids go on to a succesfull professional career

Anonymous said...

Jerry, the TIS is actually here to serve the future of the Australian national team, not the local premier league.

It's an amusing misconception many in the local community have.

They owe Tasmanian soccer nothing, but do offer the local community access to an elite yth outfit.

Jerry, perhaps you can answer this for me - why do the clubs in Tasmanian soccer believe someone owes them something?

As far as clubs arguing that they have developed these youngsters, it's hardly the case. At this age they offer an outlet, and should be proud that a player of theirs makes the TIS.

Adrian said...

I have to agree with Anonymous last comment.

Tasmanian clubs provides an amateur an opportunity to play football, period. However by luck, some do find a way to progress further although not in any formal structured way.

TIS however, should provide a pathway to greater heights in a more structured way.

Thats why TIS I believe should coordinate all coaching development across the state, under FFA rules and guidelines. They can help frame the structure for all junior associations and FFT. Lets focus on having a decent structure; one that is simple, effective and consistent across the state.

And why we are talking about structure and consistency, does TIS has women squads? Are they playing at the highest possible level in the State???

One last thing; when we host an A league game, curtain raisers should be played by the young squads, both boys & girls, not just a bunch of old buggers.

Interested said...

Anonymous , what are you on ?
The TIS is there to serve the future of the Australian National Team ??????
1.The intention is that a player, or more , hopefully ,develops via the TIS and makes it to national team level.Most of these kids will not make that progress , some may play premier league in another state ,but the majority will be good players IN THE LOCAL LEAGUE.Then the standard of the local league improves doesnt it ? .
It is not the future of the national team. If you took away the TIS , I reckon there may still be a national team. The national team does not rely on the TIS.
2.Which local club has stated that they are owed something ? Do you know something we dont ? Why do you make that assumption ?
3.Clubs do have a bit to do with the development of these kids at an early age. Dont the majority of them play for clubs before they make state teams or TIS ?They dont just pop out and all of a sudden they are good players that are chosen for these rep teams. They must have learnt how to play from somewhere. I think that in most cases that is from the local clubs.

Anonymous said...

Interested,

the current quality of senior player indicates that junior development needs to be revamped dramatically at local clubs.

I would argue that when a good player comes through a club, it's more to do with the individual as local clubs do not provide quality coaches.

The TIS, VIS, QAS, SASI etc...are designed to feed the junior national teams and then the full national team in time.

They are not run so that local premier league competitions may benefit in the future when they (the players) dont make the national team setup.

As far as my comments regarding local clubs, they are plenty of complaints regaridng the TIS boys and them not being guaranteed their player back in the future etc...

unfortunately they have a habit of cutting off their noses...

Anonymous said...

Adrian,
The TIS does field a young womens development squad (of mixed ages).
They played in U14 boys this year.

I'm sure we will see them develop in years to come as the womens game has in general.

jerrie kruijver said...

tis ows tasmania plenty.a lot of tasmanian tax helps finance tis i believe.the expertise tis can offer to tasmanian football should be freely shared with other coaches from the various clubs.the people that pay their fees to fft are entitled to that,nomatter if they play social league or premierleague.especially now that it is proposed that fft absorb the joiningfee for tis to let tis play in the seniorcomps/the other players are paying that in other words.if tis is only there to benefit the national it should be banned from operating here.most of us want the sport to prosper as a whole.just catering for a small clique is not the way.

Interested said...

Anonymous ,you are away with the fairies , whoever you are.
The standard of the senior competition here is very ordinary ,I agree.
I do not necessarily agree that the reason the standard is average is because of poor junior development. When I was playing in the state league competitions of years gone ,there was no junior development as there is today.I can tell you that the standard then was much higher than today.There were many good players around , some imports , but many local good players also , who had to train extemely hard and commit if they were to get a game. Sometimes they would train 4 times per week. This was the difference. Once overseas imports began reducing and eventually stopped , the standard was still quite high as the remaining local players were used to the higher standard and committment ,so it lasted a few more years. Eventually as these players began retiring from the game,no more imports, not much incentive for clubs to spend money to win titles , due to no reward, or very little , less committment from all concerned , and so on . Now we have what we have today. However it is not just in this sport that this has occurred. Apart from Hockey, which has had millions of dollars poured into , all other sports are in the same boat ,on a local level.
There are some quality coaches at club level ,however not at every club and not for every team at every club.
How do we get quality coaches ?Courses you say ? What f....courses ?
There havent been any run for ages.
Why dont FFT offer each club or two or three clubs as a group ,an opportunity send their coaches to the courses ?This should occur on a regular basis throughout the season , so that all clubs have an opportunity to send all their coaches ,not just one course in twelve months.Then you will have all clubs with the majority of coaches licenced. This should improve the standard of juniors and as they progress ,the standard of the senior competitions.

tassieguy said...

The problem with player development in Tasmania is due to the kids playing for schools untill they are in grade 6. By playing for their school in most cases they get poor coaching (usually the parent more keen whether or not he's played football) limited training (1 hour a week)and play against poor opposition with teammates there just cause their parents force them to.
When a pro or semipro club is scouting players they look for 8-12 y.o.
Tassie players go to clubs at 12-13age.. it's too late although there are exceptions.
TIS and State Teams target the wrong age groups it's too late for players development..
Clubs should start fielding teams from Under 6 and the schools should stop putting pressure on students to play for them when they can't offer quality training and player development.

Schools should still have tournaments to be played in school time...

Re FFT ..they got $100.000 debts as they said at the Ross meeting last year..the current board I'm afraid have got no choice but to go for the cheapest options...question is..how did they end up with $100.000 debts???

Interested said...

That is why FFT are expecting clubs and players to pitch in with the promotion of the game.They are a sinking ship.

jerrie kruijver said...

interested as funny as it sounds it is up to the clubs and their loyal players and supporters to make the sport grow.fft cant do it for them.for instance amazed stated a while ago that there are about 14000 people playing the sport.just imagine if everyone just pursuaded one friend to register with a club to come and play.fft could give anyone who manages to bring someone to play and pays the fees a $20,oo discount on their fees,adrian also touched on it.get some carnivals and extra comps going durin g the ofseason etc,show tassie that the sport is alive and fun to be involved in.tassieguy also mentioned a very important point in regards to young kids that start playing.fft in conjunction with the clubs should get these kids into clubs as soon as possible.and aim to see at least 50%of them remain in the sport.fft should lobby the gvt to have , south hobart groverd and two grounds in the north upgraded to an allweathersurface.south hobart and groverd are the best grounds to come and watch football so that is where all the premierleague should be played.after all it is the best football we have to offer so it deserves spectators. jazz gamenights up a bit with a bit of entertainment and make it fun for people to come and watch a footballgame.the list goes on and on.as far as the standard of the game goes the only way that will improve is if you allow free competition with relegation and promotion and freely allow the best teams to come to the fore.

Anonymous said...

As far as the Hockey goes, well they have done collectively what Tas soccer couldn't do, and raise their own funds.

Clubs need to smarten up and start looking for the dollar to build their own facilities - yes that means door knocking selling chocolates, and arranging raffles for things such as cars etc...tilford ring a bell?

Interested said...

Jerry ,we will have dancing girls and cheer squads,. That will get the crowd in.Maybe the FFT staff could put on a shaow and each of them get a family member to come and watch. That will increase the crowds.

jerrie kruijver said...

interested in 1970 or 71 i had my one and only season of playing for rapid and i remember having good bitching sessions with the stuetzel bros and the dilba twins,karl pless about how pathetic soccer tas was running the sport,i now have 2 sons approaching 30 and grandkids starting to play the game,at 61 i still hear the same complaints about the way the sport is run in tassie.this proves two things to me namely that either tassie football is seen as an easy way for incompetents to make a good living administrating the sport or we prefer moaning about the way things are to trying to change things for the better.it is a simple choice we either change a bad system and kill some sacred cows or teach our kids how to start moaning about how badly the sport is run.if i knew how and some club wanted i would be glad to help and do something about it.my phone number is 63822094.

Interested said...

Jerry , the problem is that we need people at the top who know what they are doing and are professional.I would love to leave the job I am in and join FFT to improve and grow the sport in the state. Unfortunately FFT would not be able to pay enough to leave my current employment. The sad thing is that , I bet there are many followers ,supporters etc that would love to get in there and change things but wont for the same reasons as I .

richard bennett said...

Guys I think one thing is clear that the competition exists despite the FFT not because of it.

I cannot understand how the sport bleeds money contributed by the stakeholders (players,clubs and supporters)and other income streams seem to be a dry well.

Hockey is an interesting comparison because of it's similarity in organisation locally to football, yet the contrast in profile and facilities is stark.

Maybe like all companies(that is what FFT is apparently) the shareholders should be head hunting the CEO and senior administrators from hockey to run the company profitably and proffessionally!

the game and clubs likewise I'm sure will respond. after all we have the product and passion we don't have the profile, sponsors and leadership.

Oh and the TIS is an academy which is only a part of player development the real work for a player is gaining respect from your peers on the pitch in a club side. that's where you really learn between the ears as a player in adversity sometimes.

It is no coincidence that the top clubs currently have had the best continuous junior development programs in some cases for 15 years. South Hobat, Zebras and Clarence. I suspect that a lot of the TIS juniors started here.

Interested said...

Richard ,at last someone who understands and can see the problem . Pay peanuts and you get.......
FFT needs change ,serious change now, or we will be discussing the same issues in 20 years.

jerrie kruijver said...

lol interested so far it has been 40 years allready that i know of

jerrie kruijver said...

seriously my friends.how do we change it,moaning on this blog wont archieve it.any ideas richard and interested?

Interested said...

The sport needs people with vision and new ideas on how to promote and grow the sport.Richard made a good point. Maybe FFT should target the people responsible for the growth in Hockey ?
I did make a suggestion to FFT regarding the possibility of adjusting one part of their business ( I wont say what that is ) and to date other than an acknowledgement fo the suggestion , jack sh... Whilst we have that attitude ,or willingness to do nothing then we have no hope.
And people wonder why FFT cant attract decent people !

jerrie kruijver said...

interested could it be that the clubs themselves or their representatives at fft are too resisting any positive change?i personally believe for instance that we have put so many pedantic restrictive rules into place that it kills proper competition on the park.

Interested said...

In what way ?

jerrie kruijver said...

for instance interested we condemned competive small clubs to the wilderness of div 2 and the social leagues because they could not field any youthsides.has that resulted in more kids entering the sport or just killed of a cfew competive teams?overseas they are forced to separate teams and clubs into different leagues because of the sheer weight of numbers of clubs.and players.we dont have that problem here yet.most clubs are struggling to put more then 5 teams on the park.i believe that to get the best football on the park you have to let the best teams to the fore,and let every league sort itselfout by promotion and relegation in every league.after all it is a competetive sport.only the best teams deserve to be in the top and the only way to do that is by proving it on the park. i know i will be shot down over this but that would mean that some teams from the same club might end up in the same league,this is allready the case in div 4.the best teams and players are in the premier league,the next grade down is without a doubt the premierleague reserve league,i believe by the way that the top 2 reservesides would holda spot in the premierleague comfortably,yet we expect potential premierleague teams to come from div 1,of wich the majority would get more then they can chew from div and the the better social leaguesides.with a small population we cant support that many clubs but we sure have a heck of a lot of talent that can provide strong competion.anyway i think you know what i am getting at.it is a competive sport and only by winning should you get to the top not by fancy footwork around the boardroomtable.for instance to see a team that is runner up in div1 condemned to languish in div2 is ludicrous.(eagles,season before last)there are a lot of good players etc being wasted in the social league,who can still provide div2 and some div1 teams with good competion,why not use them?
ok you can shoot me now.

jerrie kruijver said...

read div 2,sorry

richard bennett said...

Jerry and interested sorry for the long post but I can't really abreviate.

I just think that the FFT is bogged down with things it should not have to really concentrate on. I don't shy away from some criticism about clubs either who need to lift standards of administration and be active in their local communities promoting the game and their club will benefit. (something you have covered previously Jerry) I also appreciate this effort is difficult because of the amatuer and volunteer base within clubs....been there done that.

The big ticket items need to be addressed because I think despite debate about how it is being done and by whom things like player, coach development and competition structures are starting to show some direction. My major concern here has been the lack of engagement by the FFT and the standoff that develops through a lack of trust with the clubs. The FFT need to get that situation right before any good will come of it.

The FFT need to look to the next 5 years with optimistic targets but ones that are achieveable. That will probably mean getting the right people to assist in areas of expertise such as the media, sponsorship, facility development and turning groundswell participation into lifelong players and supporters. Easier said than done perhaps but I think it is achieveable as we have the FFA blueprint under Frank Lowy to look at. Didn't he bring in people like O'niel and Singelton in the short term to do a job just as he would with his business. Looking at a local example we already have mentioned hockey.....for gods sake it's a minor sport by anyones assessment and more so in Tassie but they have already what we aspire to.

Also we have the feasibility study for the a-league proposal that has already been conducted for the state government and covers issues of potential growth and competition with other codes etc. Does the FFT use this free and professional advice I wonder?

Finally I don't suggest that there haven't been some great people on the Board at FFT (the late Steve Gasparinatos, Bob Gordon, Pete Best etc) but again I think they have had to be continually putting out spot fires of discontent and not focussed on the big issues as they should.

A lot could be achieved by having a plan and putting the people in place to carry it out. If it means either subsidising wages or paying the right people why not. after all we seem to be financially struggling for no result so at least change the later situation.

Interested said...

Your final comments are spot on Richard.The sport needs professionalism and new blood.We need the suits in there to promote and lift the profile.Over the top some may suggest ?
Not if we are fairdinkum and serious about the improvement of the sport.The leader should be someone who is not afraid to get out in the market place , pushing the sport in the face of the general public ,but should be approachable and personal enough that the local community, children playing the sport ,know who this person is. He should be known to all players and parents of kids trying out for representative sides ,for example.
For lack of a better word , the current arrangement is very ameteurish.

Anonymous said...

If the TIS want a run in premier league then give them a chance. give them some practise games against some premier league teams to see how they go. Its quite simple really and if they are good enough they will need another team from div 1 so let there be a tournament or playoff with div 1 teams so it makes a 10 team premier league season

jerrie kruijver said...

yes professionalism is required interested and you are absolutely right.i am neither a professional or an expert however i love the game.and want to see it prosper.nothing as satisfying as to see people from every walk of life playing no matter how good or bad they are.we need experts at the top who provide the guidance, i still believe that the main effort will have to be done by volunteers at grassrootlevel, i would love to see primaryschoolkids get into clubs or at least see the clubs involved in their coaching etc.maybe some clubs could get some their premierleague players sometimes to mingle with these kids if they can make the time.if fft really runs the sport then it should be in charge of the lot.if schools have sport the educationdept employs a physed teacher.why should schoolsoccer be run by a well meaning parent,maybe someone has a good plan to see these kids become paty of a club as soon as they start playing,after all they are the future.one thing we all obviously agree on it is gonna take a lot of hard work and it has to be very long term commitment.

jerrie kruijver said...

anonymus,if tis wants to run with the big boys it should be treated equal to the bigboys,that means having the same rights but also the same obligations,last season clubs fought for promotion and tried to avoid relegation,why should tis simply walk into the premierleague without having had to earn it?anyway we see what is decided in a while and just have to live with whatever is decided.

I Know said...

The TIS is run in a manner that has excluded or dienchanted many talented players around 15 - 17.

If Scott, McIntyre, Hughes, Mann, Pennicott, Barron and Nandan were (still) in TIS then maybe they would present a good argument for inclusion.

However they, being arguably the best young talent in Tassie, (along with a few other exclusions)are playing Premier League Seniors for their various clubs.

One lesson our "elite" coaches could learn is that if they want to act like arrogant assholes along the way then they can't expect the general football community to embrace them and their agenda.

Interested said...

I Know , your comments are spot on.
The present "elite" coaches,by job description only ,as far as I am concerned,need to take some humility pills and less of the arrogance pills.What a great example of how not to treat and speak to fellow human beings. This type of behaviour might be OK in a zoo ,or from where they come from ,but not in a society that would rightly expect that these "elite", provide a good example to our young players. Disgrace.

Anonymous said...

I KNOW!!!!

The age of players in the Institute programs is dictated by FFA, so for 2009/10 they must be born in 1994 or 1995.

So that takes quite a few of those players you ve mentioned out of the equation.

McIntyre and Nandan both chose to withdraw themslves from the program.

prehaps you should go and speak to Dean May, and get the facts before verbally abuseing him.

Interested said...

Anonymous , the additions to the squad this year were those born in 1995. Then there was only 5 or 6 added for 2010. There are still older players that form the majority of the squad.
Get your facts right before commenting.
Also , "I Know" did not mention the TIS coach specifically. He referred to "elite coaches".
He could be referring to others .

I Know You Don't Know said...

You know "I Know", I know you don't know.

I Know said...

Gee I wonder what year Will Abbott and Jeremy Walker were born in. Maybe they slipped past the FFA rules.

Both good lads but certainly not born in 1994 or 1995.

There were more than 2 who "chose to withdraw themselves" from TIS, which is my point - you anonymous idiot

Prophet said...

From my information there are 5 who have pulled out since end 2007 and at least 1 declined the offer. A number of others have been axed.

The inside is that a number more will be pulling out sooner than later. Watch this space.

In a way it is good to see that the clubs are providing an attractive alternative to the TIS. Maybe it will make the powerbrokers more accommodating and less abrasive. A lot of coaches are unnecessarily hard on these top youth players who have to sacrafice a lot for the privilege.

Is it true that FFA has dictated only 15 and 16 year olds can play in TIS in 2010? That doesn't sound right. Where are the talented ones meant to go after that? To the clubs?

Interested said...

It is obvious there are issues with the whole TIS arrangement.Someone seriously needs to look at the current situation or this pathway for our better youngsters may be replaced by another sport. It seems that Tasmania ends up with certain people in high places in the sport here, who were not successful elswhere. This is becoming a common theme in many aspects within the sport recently.

The Big Dog said...

Interested,
Prior to the TIS I don't recall any pathway for young players at all beyond State U15s.
Perhaps you could suggest an alternative, maybe even take over at the top?

Interested said...

Big Dog, I am not criticising the TIS.It is a great thing. What I was suggesting was that there appears to be alot of rumblings in the background about the personnel running these programs. That has been going on for some time now, and the fact that there have been many leave the program voluntarily ,suggests that someone needs to look into the reasons and fix the problem.

Anonymous said...

Interested
It is not surprising that over a 2-3 year period with a progamme such as this, particulalry with the resitance it has met since inception, that a few (not "many" as you suggest) will leave.

Could it be that the problem is not with the TIS at all but with those who rumble in the background?

Observer said...

Anonymous , the rumblings I have heard are from parents of the boys and other people I have spoken to have heard similar reports.
In my opinion Anonymous ,if it has been running for 2 years and that has catered for say 20 players in that time, and 4 leave , then that is a large number in my book. The squad has been fairly consistent other than new additions this year in that time.20% of a workforce leaving is a worry , dont you think ? Or dont you think !

Interested said...

Thanks Observer.I agree.
I've heard enough on the TIS. Lets discuss something positive

Sideline Observer said...

If the past is anything to go on surely putting the U15s in Div 1 playing against adults will lead to injury. This was seen earlier this year during a "practice" game between the State U15s and Nelson Div 1 where young Stuie Page had his State Representative aspirations squashed when the goalie's slide tackle broke his knee.

Playing up is fine as long as the boys are emotionally and physically strong as well as skillful enough to endure it, but regardless they should not put in to a division or play against teams (practice or otherwise) where the aim will be to "take them down" just because they can. After all they are going to represent the state (us) later in the year, so why injure them or put them in a division where they could be!

richard bennett said...

sideline observer boys have to eventually play against men anywhere. It's part of player development.

the issue should be they play with a team who has experienced players in it not an exclusive youth team and they play in a technicaly good league not a physical one.

victorianpremierleague said...

Here are some links to TIS playing in the Institute Challenge held in Melbourne earlier this year.

Institute Challenge TIS V AFS Highlights 1st Half
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bqYTJeYKZI

Institute Challenge TIS V AFS Highlights 2nd Half
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMC4ivZ_XWg

Anonymous said...

put 15s in div 1